From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  1 02:44:55 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:44:55 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: NikTek2, was RE:  Re: NikTek1
Message-ID: <380-2200885124455437@earthlink.net>

Marcus, 

Nothing works for me much before September, after which almost any day
works except Friday (FRIAM).  

So I should stop talking, now.  How many other people, not members of the
present congretation, can you think of who might be interested in such a
day.  

I wish you luck with this. 

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Marcus G. Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 7/31/2008 5:27:51 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: NikTek2, was RE:  Re: NikTek1
>
> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> >  But how about NikTek2:  Perhaps we should just screw the initial
> > individual productive work, and start right in clabbering
collaborations. 
> > If each person could make a succinct ..
> Would a Thursday work?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  1 02:54:40 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:54:40 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Social and Behavioral Dimensions of National
	Security, Conflict, and Cooperation (NSCC) nsf08594
Message-ID: <380-220088512544048@earthlink.net>

Look's like the Dark Side is looking to the Light.

Anything here for us?  A Workshop perhaps????

http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2008/nsf08594/nsf08594.htm?govDel=USNSF_25

Nick 


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
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From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Fri Aug  1 03:07:20 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:07:20 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Social and Behavioral Dimensions of
 National	Security, Conflict, and Cooperation (NSCC) nsf08594
In-Reply-To: <380-220088512544048@earthlink.net>
References: <380-220088512544048@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48927DE8.60906@snoutfarm.com>

Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
> Look's like the Dark Side is looking to the Light.
>  
> Anything here for us?  A Workshop perhaps????
http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/fuseaction/1663.article/d/200805/id/13287



From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  1 04:43:19 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:43:19 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  wikimedia question
Message-ID: <380-2200885144319312@earthlink.net>

Does anybody know how to italicize a block of text in mediawiki?  

Using the wiki text seems to produce italicization only of the first LINE 

N


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
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From don at sfcomplex.org  Fri Aug  1 19:18:59 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:18:59 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: NikTek1
In-Reply-To: <C9A26BDB-13D7-4FC1-96C5-734BB061B51C@backspaces.net>
References: <82F546E9-B86D-487D-896C-B98E33767844@sfcomplex.org>
	<C9A26BDB-13D7-4FC1-96C5-734BB061B51C@backspaces.net>
Message-ID: <6F2411DF-A874-4ACC-BF32-A5DE70EB55E2@sfcomplex.org>

The Densmores had a lovely tailgater going. <g>

I haven't bought big food recently (pizza, BumbleBees) because we only  
get about 60% of the cost returned through contributions. For a large  
event, that means we could be $100 in the hole, $400 a month, $4800 a  
year--the price of a studio affiliate. We could rethink this if we  
have funds to cover the costs but we're in a triage mode today so we  
have to make these decisions carefully. For example, $400 will buy a  
pair of new steel signs for the street with clear instructions on how  
to find the door--the single most common complaint I get from  
visitors. Or, it will buy a terabyte storage device for the video  
we're creating now, which has already filled my 250GB portable. Or, it  
will but 1/2 of a Mac mini for a video editing station, which is the  
hold-up on getting our video processed for the web.

-d-



On Jul 31, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> I loved it!  I hung around from around 10:00 to 5:00, running home for
> a bit before the Fractal show.  Worked great.
>
> Hardest thing for me is simply nudging my daily schedules around a
> bit.  Dede helped a lot by figuring out how to do the evening Fractal
> show: bring a picnic, or as Steve said: a tailgate party!
>
>    -- Owen
>
> On Jul 31, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Don Begley wrote:
>
>> Well, it wasn't exactly the social event of the season. :-(
>>
>> Let's try again next week. If you have time, come by and we'll
>> populate the complex with work, workers and wonderment.
>>
>> -d-
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From don at sfcomplex.org  Fri Aug  1 19:24:39 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:24:39 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  August Eldorado Sun Coverage of sfComplex
Message-ID: <7DE38765-C5FE-49E0-A5F6-42D34CEC02EC@sfcomplex.org>

We're favorably mentioned in an article on Eric Whitmore's work. The  
issue isn't online yet or I'd post a link.

-d-


From mkaufman at innovationlabs.com  Fri Aug  1 20:00:56 2008
From: mkaufman at innovationlabs.com (Michael Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:00:56 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: August Eldorado Sun Coverage of sfComplex
In-Reply-To: <7DE38765-C5FE-49E0-A5F6-42D34CEC02EC@sfcomplex.org>
References: <7DE38765-C5FE-49E0-A5F6-42D34CEC02EC@sfcomplex.org>
Message-ID: <2AC33E22-3B79-4680-89A3-3085175E6E64@innovationlabs.com>

That's excellent!!


thanks,

Michael

Michael Kaufman
InnovationLabs LLC
www.innovationlabs.com
510-903-0652



On Aug 1, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Don Begley wrote:

> We're favorably mentioned in an article on Eric Whitmore's work. The
> issue isn't online yet or I'd post a link.
>
> -d-
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  1 21:08:19 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:08:19 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: NikTek1
Message-ID: <380-2200885121819488@earthlink.net>

I will put in $100 to cover the short fall of an august event.  

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/1/2008 1:19:06 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: NikTek1
>
> The Densmores had a lovely tailgater going. <g>
>
> I haven't bought big food recently (pizza, BumbleBees) because we only  
> get about 60% of the cost returned through contributions. For a large  
> event, that means we could be $100 in the hole, $400 a month, $4800 a  
> year--the price of a studio affiliate. We could rethink this if we  
> have funds to cover the costs but we're in a triage mode today so we  
> have to make these decisions carefully. For example, $400 will buy a  
> pair of new steel signs for the street with clear instructions on how  
> to find the door--the single most common complaint I get from  
> visitors. Or, it will buy a terabyte storage device for the video  
> we're creating now, which has already filled my 250GB portable. Or, it  
> will but 1/2 of a Mac mini for a video editing station, which is the  
> hold-up on getting our video processed for the web.
>
> -d-
>
>
>
> On Jul 31, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>
> > I loved it!  I hung around from around 10:00 to 5:00, running home for
> > a bit before the Fractal show.  Worked great.
> >
> > Hardest thing for me is simply nudging my daily schedules around a
> > bit.  Dede helped a lot by figuring out how to do the evening Fractal
> > show: bring a picnic, or as Steve said: a tailgate party!
> >
> >    -- Owen
> >
> > On Jul 31, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Don Begley wrote:
> >
> >> Well, it wasn't exactly the social event of the season. :-(
> >>
> >> Let's try again next week. If you have time, come by and we'll
> >> populate the complex with work, workers and wonderment.
> >>
> >> -d-
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Discuss mailing list
> >> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> > http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Sun Aug  3 19:54:03 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 13:54:03 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  x-ray holograms
Message-ID: <48960CDB.4030007@snoutfarm.com>

This was mentioned on ./ today.  

http://www.lbl.gov/publicinfo/newscenter/pr/2008/ALS-fast-holograms.html
http://www.nanovip.com/node/53372

Compared to crystallography, this preserves the phase information so a 
losses 3d image can be recovered without heuristics, and I think even 
captured in time.  Not quite atom level, but getting close..

(LANL doesn't get Nature Photonics, so I couldn't read the paper.)


From stephen.guerin at redfish.com  Mon Aug  4 14:07:25 2008
From: stephen.guerin at redfish.com (Stephen Guerin)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:07:25 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  FW: Every Child Matters Presentation and Workshop
Message-ID: <006001c8f63b$6d68b0a0$6701a8c0@hongyu>

This should be a good talk.
 
-S
 

--- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....
Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com
www.Redfish.com
624 Agua Fria Street, Santa Fe, NM 87501
mobile: (505)577-5828
office: (505)995-0206
London: +44 (0) 20 7993 4769


 


  _____  

From: Brian Skeele [mailto:brianvida at nm.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:58 AM
To: stephen at redfish.com
Subject: Every Child Matters Presentation and Workshop


	



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www.2010turnaround.com <http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001hrMVolSGnrtPDKhIRaTOD4G_yPXqkM0UZQMjTRE0V-5KvLpbZKBmJwr8aEeYzEmcX_JRqw0xXobx5BkYTw9r54-wue_3cTH9DFBAcqUYqrQZwSGVWQModA==> 

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From tom at jtjohnson.com  Mon Aug  4 18:15:20 2008
From: tom at jtjohnson.com (Tom Johnson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:15:20 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Fwd: O'Reilly ETech 2009 - Call For Proposals
In-Reply-To: <LYRIS-6520215-55372-2008.08.04-11.00.03--jtjohnson555#gmail.com@newsletter.oreilly.com>
References: <LYRIS-6520215-55372-2008.08.04-11.00.03--jtjohnson555#gmail.com@newsletter.oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <e04090490808041115r11564244g79eac3ca1cbe99c8@mail.gmail.com>

Anything here for  us?

-tj

---------- Forwarded message ----------

    If you cannot read the information below, click
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 The ETech 2009 Call for Participation is Now Open

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==========================================
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http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete."
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==========================================
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From don at sfcomplex.org  Mon Aug  4 19:33:07 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:33:07 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Donor & Participant Recruiting Session
Message-ID: <512F13F4-85AA-44D0-9528-D364B907A37D@sfcomplex.org>

Please mark your calendars for a second donor recruiting session on  
Friday, August 8 at the complex at 1:00. We want to work on a laptop- 
level donor list and make contact assignments. We can also review the  
fundraising campaign outlined by Roy Wroth on the wiki. (Click here  
for that info.)

-d-



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From don at sfcomplex.org  Tue Aug  5 02:56:08 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:56:08 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Wednesday's NikTek
Message-ID: <1536FC75-16AA-457D-AA60-2A3381BBAFE7@sfcomplex.org>

Tom Johnson will be hosting a working session for his Complexity in  
Cuba project from 3-5 and we'll have the acequia blender that evening  
so Wednesday looks to be a full day. Let's keep it that way with a  
working session beginning at 1:00. Bring any projects you are working  
on and a 10-15 minute overview if you wish. We'll have food available  
for a late lunch; $7 per person--let me know if you're interested.


-d-
670-9432 (cell)


From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  5 15:02:17 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:02:17 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Wednesday's NikTek
Message-ID: <380-220088251521741@earthlink.net>

All, 

I wish I could be there.  Take good notes. 

Nick 



Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> To: sfx-Discuss sfx-Discuss <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/4/2008 8:56:15 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Wednesday's NikTek
>
> Tom Johnson will be hosting a working session for his Complexity in  
> Cuba project from 3-5 and we'll have the acequia blender that evening  
> so Wednesday looks to be a full day. Let's keep it that way with a  
> working session beginning at 1:00. Bring any projects you are working  
> on and a 10-15 minute overview if you wish. We'll have food available  
> for a late lunch; $7 per person--let me know if you're interested.
>
>
> -d-
> 670-9432 (cell)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From owen at backspaces.net  Tue Aug  5 16:13:07 2008
From: owen at backspaces.net (Owen Densmore)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:13:07 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Fwd: O'Reilly ETech 2009 - Call For Proposals
In-Reply-To: <e04090490808041115r11564244g79eac3ca1cbe99c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <LYRIS-6520215-55372-2008.08.04-11.00.03--jtjohnson555#gmail.com@newsletter.oreilly.com>
	<e04090490808041115r11564244g79eac3ca1cbe99c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF0EE175-FCA7-4E78-BFF2-7F468B346F39@backspaces.net>

Well, actually: YES!

I think the whole GIS + ABM on the tech side might be appropriate.

And on the urban studies front, both Fabio's Venice project w/ Redfish  
and Roy's work seem relevant.

Maybe we, the Complex, should start considering presentations like  
these?  I know we want to do the Austin MakerFaire, but this is a bit  
more a "talk" sort of thing.

    -- Owen

On Aug 4, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Tom Johnson wrote:

> Anything here for  us?
>
> -tj
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> If you cannot read the information below, click here.					
>
>  					   					
> News & Coverage
> Sponsorship opportunities
> Media partnership inquiries
> The ETech 2009 Call for Participation is Now Open
> The Call for Participation is now open for the eighth annual  
> O'Reilly Emerging Technology conference, scheduled for March 9-12,  
> 2009 in San Jose, CA. Submit Your Proposal by September 17, 2008.
> Our theme for ETech 2009 is Living, Reinvented: The Technology of  
> Abundance and Constraints in which we will examine the role  
> technology will play as we reinvent our relationship to living on  
> planet Earth.
> Never content with the status quo in tech, ETech 2009 will focus on  
> change on a planetary scale. We have the tools at our disposal: the  
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> vision. How will we use them to strike a new balance in quality of  
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> resources?
> We want to hear from inventors, entrepreneurs, visionaries,  
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> that's one to three years from mainstream adoption, use real data,  
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> ETech 2009 will feature exciting new content areas and opportunities  
> for innovative expression. If you are working in the following  
> areas, we want to hear from you:
> City Tech
> Are cities sustainable? Are they part of the problem, or does the  
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> data make cities smarter? Tell us how technology can create a  
> livable, prosperous, sustainable city.
> Materials & Mechanics
> >From the Mars explorer to the iPhone, materials and mechanics are  
> changing technology, products, and culture. Will today's  
> breakthrough become tomorrow's landfill? Or is there a smarter way  
> to design products for sustainability?
> Personalized Healthcare
> What are the breakthroughs in technology, genomics, medicine, anti- 
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> Mobile & The Web
> The next billion web users will connect to the Internet on their  
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> Today the iPhone boasts 500 applications ready for download. What  
> will the next generation of web apps look like? How will we use the  
> data collected to augment our view of the world?
> Geek Family
> Today's generation of new parents grew up surrounded by high tech  
> tools. How will computers, cell phones, YouTube, and social  
> networking sites change the way they raise and educate their children?
> Synthetic Biology
> The new field of Synthetic Biology designs and fabricates biological  
> components and systems for use in engineering applications. Uses  
> include faster, cheaper DNA sequencing, the redesign of bacterium,  
> probing the behavior of molecules, and a better understanding of  
> intracellular physics. How will advances in Synthetic Biology  
> effectively harness the power of the living world?
> Nomadism & Shedworking
> Digital nomads are seeing the world, taking their computers, GPS  
> locators, and miniature, foldout solar power collectors with them.  
> Others are staying put, but rejecting the dominant culture that says  
> bigger is better, to adopt a high-tech lifestyle on a small scale.  
> What can doing more with less teach us about how we will live in the  
> future?
> Sustainable Life
> The American lifestyle is unsustainable. How will technology deliver  
> a brighter, greener future? What can we learn from Europe, or from  
> the newest sustainable city currently taking shape in Dubai? Tell us  
> where we'll get the clean energy to power our cities, our cars, our  
> way of life.
> Life Hacking & Information Overload
> The information explosion leads to information overload. In the face  
> of pervasive computing, how do we find the information we need to  
> make us more productive? What are we learning from cognitive  
> science, neuroscience, psychology, and behavioral economics about  
> how we process information and make decisions?
> We're committed to making sure that ETech 2009 is once again the  
> conference that pushes the envelope with new innovation in  
> technology. Watch video clips from ETech 2008.
> Registration for the conference will open in November. Be sure to  
> submit your proposal by September 17.
> We hope to see you in San Jose next March,
> Brady Forrest and the O'Reilly ETech Conference Team
>
> For exhibition and sponsorship opportunities please email Yvonne  
> Romaine at yromaine at oreilly.com
> For media and promotional partner opportunities please email us at mediapartners at oreilly.com
> You are receiving this message because you signed up to receive the  
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>
>
> -- 
> ==========================================
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> www.analyticjournalism.com
> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
> http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com
>
> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
> To change something, build a new model that makes the
> existing model obsolete."
> -- Buckminster Fuller
> ==========================================
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
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>

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From don at sfcomplex.org  Tue Aug  5 16:30:46 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:30:46 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Wiki is down
Message-ID: <3BC73C97-2753-4D77-B80B-22DB2E695C05@sfcomplex.org>

I'm trying to figure out where it went. <g> Will post info as available.

-d-


From don at sfcomplex.org  Wed Aug  6 02:10:20 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 20:10:20 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Board Meeting August 29
Message-ID: <9479BF8F-91FE-45E5-8F29-17538611D8CD@sfcomplex.org>

August 29 is the common date among respondents to my earlier note. I'd  
like to start at 1:00 if that is acceptable; we'll have a light lunch  
available. I'll send a draft agenda for comments this week and a  
package with minutes from the last meeting and a financial report by  
the 20th.

Key topics for this meeting include:
? financial report
? 08 fundraising campaign
? Nominations Committee (for officers & potential new board members)
? Review of 501(c)(3) filing

Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

-d-
670-9432 (cell)


P.S. I fixed the listserv so replies go to the list directly.

From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  6 02:58:08 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 20:58:08 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
Message-ID: <380-220088362588805@earthlink.net>

Don, 

I will be sorry to miss it, probably. 

But I will be in SF the following week. 

Is anybody thinking about the local grant proposal?  The "window" has
opened, right????

Nick 



Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> To: sfx-board <board at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Cc: Rhiannon Bransford <rhiannonb at lanb.com>; Brenda Folstad
<bfolstadcpa at qwestoffice.net>; sfx-Discuss sfx-Discuss
<discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>; Elizabeth Martin <ebethmartin1 at comcast.net>
> Date: 8/5/2008 8:10:22 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Board Meeting August 29
>
> August 29 is the common date among respondents to my earlier note. I'd  
> like to start at 1:00 if that is acceptable; we'll have a light lunch  
> available. I'll send a draft agenda for comments this week and a  
> package with minutes from the last meeting and a financial report by  
> the 20th.
>
> Key topics for this meeting include:
> ? financial report
> ? 08 fundraising campaign
> ? Nominations Committee (for officers & potential new board members)
> ? Review of 501(c)(3) filing
>
> Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
>
> -d-
> 670-9432 (cell)
>
>
> P.S. I fixed the listserv so replies go to the list directly.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From don at sfcomplex.org  Wed Aug  6 03:31:33 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 21:31:33 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
In-Reply-To: <380-220088362588805@earthlink.net>
References: <380-220088362588805@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <27219773-4B74-4AAF-B67D-34DE593D9D0D@sfcomplex.org>


On Aug 5, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> Don,
>
> I will be sorry to miss it, probably.
>
> But I will be in SF the following week.

See you then.


>
>
> Is anybody thinking about the local grant proposal?  The "window" has
> opened, right????
>

Not yet. 8/15.


> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
>
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
>> To: sfx-board <board at lists.sfcomplex.org>
>> Cc: Rhiannon Bransford <rhiannonb at lanb.com>; Brenda Folstad
> <bfolstadcpa at qwestoffice.net>; sfx-Discuss sfx-Discuss
> <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>; Elizabeth Martin <ebethmartin1 at comcast.net 
> >
>> Date: 8/5/2008 8:10:22 PM
>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Board Meeting August 29
>>
>> August 29 is the common date among respondents to my earlier note.  
>> I'd
>> like to start at 1:00 if that is acceptable; we'll have a light lunch
>> available. I'll send a draft agenda for comments this week and a
>> package with minutes from the last meeting and a financial report by
>> the 20th.
>>
>> Key topics for this meeting include:
>> ? financial report
>> ? 08 fundraising campaign
>> ? Nominations Committee (for officers & potential new board members)
>> ? Review of 501(c)(3) filing
>>
>> Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
>>
>> -d-
>> 670-9432 (cell)
>>
>>
>> P.S. I fixed the listserv so replies go to the list directly.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  6 15:26:55 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:26:55 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
Message-ID: <380-22008836152655433@earthlink.net>

Do you think it matters when you come in the window.  

announcement of serioiusness of intent? 

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/5/2008 9:31:34 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
>
>
> On Aug 5, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
> > Don,
> >
> > I will be sorry to miss it, probably.
> >
> > But I will be in SF the following week.
>
> See you then.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Is anybody thinking about the local grant proposal?  The "window" has
> > opened, right????
> >
>
> Not yet. 8/15.
>
>
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> > Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> >> To: sfx-board <board at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> >> Cc: Rhiannon Bransford <rhiannonb at lanb.com>; Brenda Folstad
> > <bfolstadcpa at qwestoffice.net>; sfx-Discuss sfx-Discuss
> > <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>; Elizabeth Martin
<ebethmartin1 at comcast.net 
> > >
> >> Date: 8/5/2008 8:10:22 PM
> >> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Board Meeting August 29
> >>
> >> August 29 is the common date among respondents to my earlier note.  
> >> I'd
> >> like to start at 1:00 if that is acceptable; we'll have a light lunch
> >> available. I'll send a draft agenda for comments this week and a
> >> package with minutes from the last meeting and a financial report by
> >> the 20th.
> >>
> >> Key topics for this meeting include:
> >> ? financial report
> >> ? 08 fundraising campaign
> >> ? Nominations Committee (for officers & potential new board members)
> >> ? Review of 501(c)(3) filing
> >>
> >> Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
> >>
> >> -d-
> >> 670-9432 (cell)
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S. I fixed the listserv so replies go to the list directly.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Discuss mailing list
> >> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> > http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Wed Aug  6 17:24:08 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:24:08 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  [Fwd: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?]
Message-ID: <4899DE38.8010003@snoutfarm.com>

How about if the Complex set up a library?

It could collect media on topics not available at the regional 
libraries, on art, technology, and science.
Members could have free access to the online journals and 
better-than-interlibrary-loan rates and open-ended periods for 
borrowing.  This would be a way to encourage membership for people (say 
on FRIAM) that are in different places and can't physically visit the 
Complex with any frequency.   Journals, especially, are terribly 
expensive.   But the library could also participate in interlibrary 
loans with UNM, SFI, LANL, etc.   That would give the Complex some 
ongoing interaction and visibility with these established organizations.

Rather than buying books and (online) journal subscriptions for 
ourselves, we could just buy them for the Complex and get a tax write 
off, and share them.

I even happen to know a librarian who would be willing to help out.   :-)

Marcus

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Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?
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From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Wed Aug  6 17:39:19 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:39:19 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Weds Presentation
Message-ID: <c46.3a71017d.35cb3bc7@aol.com>

Friends,

I think we all noticed the error.   See you later    Paul


**************

Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL 
Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From don at sfcomplex.org  Wed Aug  6 20:12:07 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:12:07 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
In-Reply-To: <380-22008836152655433@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008836152655433@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <223BA767-EECA-450E-9201-E946EFFC86D7@sfcomplex.org>

Yes, I think we should file as quickly as possible.

-d-

On Aug 6, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> Do you think it matters when you come in the window.
>
> announcement of serioiusness of intent?
>
> N
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
>
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
>> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
>> Date: 8/5/2008 9:31:34 PM
>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
>>
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> I will be sorry to miss it, probably.
>>>
>>> But I will be in SF the following week.
>>
>> See you then.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is anybody thinking about the local grant proposal?  The "window"  
>>> has
>>> opened, right????
>>>
>>
>> Not yet. 8/15.
>>
>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
>>> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
>>>> To: sfx-board <board at lists.sfcomplex.org>
>>>> Cc: Rhiannon Bransford <rhiannonb at lanb.com>; Brenda Folstad
>>> <bfolstadcpa at qwestoffice.net>; sfx-Discuss sfx-Discuss
>>> <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>; Elizabeth Martin
> <ebethmartin1 at comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> Date: 8/5/2008 8:10:22 PM
>>>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Board Meeting August 29
>>>>
>>>> August 29 is the common date among respondents to my earlier note.
>>>> I'd
>>>> like to start at 1:00 if that is acceptable; we'll have a light  
>>>> lunch
>>>> available. I'll send a draft agenda for comments this week and a
>>>> package with minutes from the last meeting and a financial report  
>>>> by
>>>> the 20th.
>>>>
>>>> Key topics for this meeting include:
>>>> ? financial report
>>>> ? 08 fundraising campaign
>>>> ? Nominations Committee (for officers & potential new board  
>>>> members)
>>>> ? Review of 501(c)(3) filing
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> -d-
>>>> 670-9432 (cell)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I fixed the listserv so replies go to the list directly.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>>>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From don at sfcomplex.org  Wed Aug  6 20:13:38 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:13:38 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [Fwd: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?]
In-Reply-To: <4899DE38.8010003@snoutfarm.com>
References: <4899DE38.8010003@snoutfarm.com>
Message-ID: <C2E4589C-4594-401F-8A71-9808F32CFBE7@sfcomplex.org>

You must be prescient, Marcus. We were working on the library this  
morning. So far, we're using donated and loaned books (primarily from  
Ed Angel & Steve Smith). I'd love to visit with a librarian about  
additional resources.

-d-

On Aug 6, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

> How about if the Complex set up a library?
>
> It could collect media on topics not available at the regional  
> libraries, on art, technology, and science.
> Members could have free access to the online journals and better- 
> than-interlibrary-loan rates and open-ended periods for borrowing.   
> This would be a way to encourage membership for people (say on  
> FRIAM) that are in different places and can't physically visit the  
> Complex with any frequency.   Journals, especially, are terribly  
> expensive.   But the library could also participate in interlibrary  
> loans with UNM, SFI, LANL, etc.   That would give the Complex some  
> ongoing interaction and visibility with these established  
> organizations.
>
> Rather than buying books and (online) journal subscriptions for  
> ourselves, we could just buy them for the Complex and get a tax  
> write off, and share them.
>
> I even happen to know a librarian who would be willing to help  
> out.   :-)
>
> Marcus
>
>
> From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
> Date: August 6, 2008 8:48:35 AM MDT
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com 
> >
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?
> Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com 
> >
>
>
> I have Kim Sorvig's copy of The Equations.  Fascinating stunt:
> introduces the concepts of what several parts of equations are:
> derivative, integral, differential equation, ...
>
> The did this to dispel the idea that equations reduce the readership
> of books.  So its sorta how to read equations: the change in this
> thingy plus the exponent of that thingy, summed over this range is
> really the energy of the system .. sort of thing.
>
> Innovative book design as well, very small book, very elegantly put
> together.
>
> I sent off for the relativity book so by friday we can browse them  
> both.
>
>    -- Owen
>
>
> On Aug 5, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:
>
>> Carl Tollander wrote:
>>> I was fortunately (hoo boy!) wrong, this is different and may be  
>>> much
>>> related to my questions about observers, but I came away very
>>> motivated
>>> by the clarity of the talk to peruse his books on quantum computing,
>>> which were highly recommended by Those In The Know (you know who you
>>> are) as being popular books that are highly non-pandering ( see
>>> http://tinyurl.com/5q25so ).  Anybody else motivated to make sense  
>>> of
>>> these and if so, which one?
>>>
>> He seems to have two books, "The equations: Icons of Knowledge" and
>> "Very Special Relativity".
>> But what about quantum computing?     I see this sort of survey
>> article
>> he wrote with Doyne Farmer
>> http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/0708.2837 that gets into quantum computation
>> about half way through.
>>
>> ..and the full list of arXiv articles here
>> http://xxx.lanl.gov/find/grp_physics/1/au:+bais/0/1/0/all/0/1
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Wed Aug  6 20:27:45 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:27:45 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [Fwd: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?]
In-Reply-To: <C2E4589C-4594-401F-8A71-9808F32CFBE7@sfcomplex.org>
References: <4899DE38.8010003@snoutfarm.com>
	<C2E4589C-4594-401F-8A71-9808F32CFBE7@sfcomplex.org>
Message-ID: <489A0941.3030003@snoutfarm.com>

Don Begley wrote:
> You must be prescient, Marcus. We were working on the library this 
> morning. So far, we're using donated and loaned books (primarily from 
> Ed Angel & Steve Smith). I'd love to visit with a librarian about 
> additional resources.
Great!   I've copied Bae Smith, circulation director at the Santa Fe 
Public library.   She knows all about collection development and about 
this terrain in particular -- I have first-hand knowledge that she did 
most of the research for most of the SFI faculty for years.  ;-)

Marcus

From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  6 23:08:06 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:08:06 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
Message-ID: <380-220088362386223@earthlink.net>

Do you want me to try to work on it from Massachusetts? 

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/6/2008 2:12:10 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
>
> Yes, I think we should file as quickly as possible.
>
> -d-
>
> On Aug 6, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
> > Do you think it matters when you come in the window.
> >
> > announcement of serioiusness of intent?
> >
> > N
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> > Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> >> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> >> Date: 8/5/2008 9:31:34 PM
> >> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Board Meeting August 29
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 5, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Don,
> >>>
> >>> I will be sorry to miss it, probably.
> >>>
> >>> But I will be in SF the following week.
> >>
> >> See you then.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Is anybody thinking about the local grant proposal?  The "window"  
> >>> has
> >>> opened, right????
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not yet. 8/15.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Nick
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Nicholas S. Thompson
> >>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> >>> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> [Original Message]
> >>>> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> >>>> To: sfx-board <board at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> >>>> Cc: Rhiannon Bransford <rhiannonb at lanb.com>; Brenda Folstad
> >>> <bfolstadcpa at qwestoffice.net>; sfx-Discuss sfx-Discuss
> >>> <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>; Elizabeth Martin
> > <ebethmartin1 at comcast.net
> >>>>
> >>>> Date: 8/5/2008 8:10:22 PM
> >>>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Board Meeting August 29
> >>>>
> >>>> August 29 is the common date among respondents to my earlier note.
> >>>> I'd
> >>>> like to start at 1:00 if that is acceptable; we'll have a light  
> >>>> lunch
> >>>> available. I'll send a draft agenda for comments this week and a
> >>>> package with minutes from the last meeting and a financial report  
> >>>> by
> >>>> the 20th.
> >>>>
> >>>> Key topics for this meeting include:
> >>>> ? financial report
> >>>> ? 08 fundraising campaign
> >>>> ? Nominations Committee (for officers & potential new board  
> >>>> members)
> >>>> ? Review of 501(c)(3) filing
> >>>>
> >>>> Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> -d-
> >>>> 670-9432 (cell)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> P.S. I fixed the listserv so replies go to the list directly.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >>>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Discuss mailing list
> >>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Discuss mailing list
> >> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> > http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  6 23:09:24 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:09:24 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [Fwd: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?]
Message-ID: <380-220088362392444@earthlink.net>

I just put 10 boxes of books on natural selection and evolution, etc., in
my barn.  

Hmmmmm!

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Marcus G. Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>; SMITH, BAE S
<bssmith at ci.santa-fe.nm.us>
> Date: 8/6/2008 2:27:49 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [Fwd: Re: [FRIAM] Bais talk and books?]
>
> Don Begley wrote:
> > You must be prescient, Marcus. We were working on the library this 
> > morning. So far, we're using donated and loaned books (primarily from 
> > Ed Angel & Steve Smith). I'd love to visit with a librarian about 
> > additional resources.
> Great!   I've copied Bae Smith, circulation director at the Santa Fe 
> Public library.   She knows all about collection development and about 
> this terrain in particular -- I have first-hand knowledge that she did 
> most of the research for most of the SFI faculty for years.  ;-)
>
> Marcus
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From owen at backspaces.net  Thu Aug  7 00:16:47 2008
From: owen at backspaces.net (Owen Densmore)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:16:47 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
Message-ID: <8257B332-A337-4E90-84B0-E402449159FD@backspaces.net>

After a bit of prodding by Steve, I started to gather some of my ideas  
about the divide between math and computing.  I'm putting together a  
brief talk on the topic and hope to give it next WedTech.

While looking into the state of computer math packages, I found that  
Sage has really expanded its capabilities and has a VERY robust user  
community.  There docs:
   http://www.sagemath.org/doc/index.html
.. are pretty solid.

So one project I'm considering is going over their really fine tutorial:
   http://www.sagemath.org/doc/paper-letter/tut.pdf

Is anyone else interested?  I'm going to poke at it next wed at the  
complex, we're starting to make that the common day folks gather  
around for project work.

    -- Owen


From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  7 00:41:12 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:41:12 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
Message-ID: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>

Again, it would be nice to find a way to collect our thoughts on these
matters, as well.  

Owen, you have been in some doubt about the NoodlersCorner as a method. 
why dont you use the occasioin of your talk, etc., to open up a space where
we could talk about it in writing.  Whatever space you think is best for
migrating ideas from kneejerks to content.  

Needless to say, I am very interested in this and will join in remotely in
anything you set up.    Let me start by guessing what Rosen might say about
the differences and similarities.  Both mathematics and computing are
systems of entailment, but different in the following way.  The steps in a
mathematical argument are ALL entailed from the axioms.  In a computer
program, no step is entailed by any of the ones that precede it, otherwise
there would be no need to include that step in the program.  However, if
the program is properly written, Some outcome or set of outcomes is
entailed by the program.  

So, a computer programmer is trying to figure out how to entail a set of
outcomes; a mathematician is trying to figure out what outcomes are
entailed by a set of axoms.  

Is a computer program like a mathematical proof with an EXTREMELY LARGE
axiom set and VERY FEW deductions.  

Nick


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/6/2008 6:16:51 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
>
> After a bit of prodding by Steve, I started to gather some of my ideas  
> about the divide between math and computing.  I'm putting together a  
> brief talk on the topic and hope to give it next WedTech.
>
> While looking into the state of computer math packages, I found that  
> Sage has really expanded its capabilities and has a VERY robust user  
> community.  There docs:
>    http://www.sagemath.org/doc/index.html
> .. are pretty solid.
>
> So one project I'm considering is going over their really fine tutorial:
>    http://www.sagemath.org/doc/paper-letter/tut.pdf
>
> Is anyone else interested?  I'm going to poke at it next wed at the  
> complex, we're starting to make that the common day folks gather  
> around for project work.
>
>     -- Owen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From owen at backspaces.net  Thu Aug  7 02:53:51 2008
From: owen at backspaces.net (Owen Densmore)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:53:51 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
In-Reply-To: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4C84165D-B0AC-4938-83F8-B2D52A8D4B46@backspaces.net>

Sweetheart, let me be clear:
   I DONT CARE ABOUT ROSEN
.. now *why* is that?

Because I care far more about learning more about mathematics, how its  
changed in the 40 years I've left it behind, the amazing unification  
that has occurred, and getting my chops back up.

I really hope this is not a disappointment, and I certainly hope not  
to insult.  Its just how I relate to math:
- I don't wonder about its validity and whether or not it is an  
entailment.
- I do like to talk about its beauty and elegance.

Example: I am constantly amazed by such things as
- The fact that a matrix solves the characteristic equation used to  
find its eigenvalues.  The best proofs are the inductive ones.
- The amazing fact that a complex function over a complex domain  
satisfies the Cauchy Riemann equations.  Simplest non-rigorous  
solutions simply choose the integral path along the x and y axes.
- Just how the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus integrates the  
differential and integral calculus by observing that the derivative of  
the area is equal to the function itself.

In other words I savor wonder and delight about math.  I don't seem to  
find the exogenous/meta philosophy compelling, nor arguing about moot  
points.

I would be interested in blogging about the wonder and delight.  Is  
that on the roadmap?

    -- Owen


On Aug 6, 2008, at 6:41 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> Again, it would be nice to find a way to collect our thoughts on these
> matters, as well.
>
> Owen, you have been in some doubt about the NoodlersCorner as a  
> method.
> why dont you use the occasioin of your talk, etc., to open up a  
> space where
> we could talk about it in writing.  Whatever space you think is best  
> for
> migrating ideas from kneejerks to content.
>
> Needless to say, I am very interested in this and will join in  
> remotely in
> anything you set up.    Let me start by guessing what Rosen might  
> say about
> the differences and similarities.  Both mathematics and computing are
> systems of entailment, but different in the following way.  The  
> steps in a
> mathematical argument are ALL entailed from the axioms.  In a computer
> program, no step is entailed by any of the ones that precede it,  
> otherwise
> there would be no need to include that step in the program.   
> However, if
> the program is properly written, Some outcome or set of outcomes is
> entailed by the program.
>
> So, a computer programmer is trying to figure out how to entail a  
> set of
> outcomes; a mathematician is trying to figure out what outcomes are
> entailed by a set of axoms.
>
> Is a computer program like a mathematical proof with an EXTREMELY  
> LARGE
> axiom set and VERY FEW deductions.
>
> Nick
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
>
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
>> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
>> Date: 8/6/2008 6:16:51 PM
>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30,  
>> 2008
>>
>> After a bit of prodding by Steve, I started to gather some of my  
>> ideas
>> about the divide between math and computing.  I'm putting together a
>> brief talk on the topic and hope to give it next WedTech.
>>
>> While looking into the state of computer math packages, I found that
>> Sage has really expanded its capabilities and has a VERY robust user
>> community.  There docs:
>>   http://www.sagemath.org/doc/index.html
>> .. are pretty solid.
>>
>> So one project I'm considering is going over their really fine  
>> tutorial:
>>   http://www.sagemath.org/doc/paper-letter/tut.pdf
>>
>> Is anyone else interested?  I'm going to poke at it next wed at the
>> complex, we're starting to make that the common day folks gather
>> around for project work.
>>
>>    -- Owen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 04:45:40 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:45:40 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Fwd: O'Reilly ETech 2009 - Call For Proposals
Message-ID: <489A7DF4.1000604@snoutfarm.com>

Owen wrote:
> I think the whole GIS + ABM on the tech side might be appropriate.
>   
yeah, some related CS topics:

1) distributed databases / distributed shared memory (DSM)
Many agents all hitting the same geodatabase won't scale.   Could a 
geodatabase be partitioned such that agents would hit just the database 
server dedicated to their particular region and set of agents?   Or are 
traditional geodatabases based on relational databases just too slow?

2) multicore, GPU, hybrid computing
The future isn't faster individual processors, it's specialized numerous 
processors in a smaller space. 
How to design agent modeling languages such that it is easy to move 
computations to these smaller cores?  e.g. anticipate size and reach of 
agents?

3) software transactional memory (STM)
Two agents running in parallel may hit the same spot at once.    STM is 
one approach to resolving the conflict without introducing bottlenecks 
from locks.


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 05:03:15 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:03:15 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
In-Reply-To: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <489A8213.7000307@snoutfarm.com>

Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Both mathematics and computing are
> systems of entailment, but different in the following way.  The  
> steps in a mathematical argument are ALL entailed from the axioms.
It's a good way to program too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolog





From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 05:43:30 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:43:30 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
In-Reply-To: <4C84165D-B0AC-4938-83F8-B2D52A8D4B46@backspaces.net>
References: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>
	<4C84165D-B0AC-4938-83F8-B2D52A8D4B46@backspaces.net>
Message-ID: <489A8B82.4070905@snoutfarm.com>

Owen Densmore wrote:
> Example: I am constantly amazed by such things as
> - The fact that a matrix solves the characteristic equation used to  
> find its eigenvalues.  
In practical terms, an eigenvalue says how much variability in a dataset 
is explained by looking at a thing from a certain angle (defined by an 
`eigenvector').  Different orthogonal perspectives give different 
amounts of explanation, but the neat and useful thing is that they are 
additive and capture different pieces of the whole picture.   For 
example, Johan Bollen's cool Blender plots of scholarly metrics were 
eigensystem analyses, a.k.a. principal component analyses.

So I don't care about wonder and delight, I care about useful.   But I'm 
pretty sure that's all personality and context.

Marcus

From owen at backspaces.net  Thu Aug  7 15:28:44 2008
From: owen at backspaces.net (Owen Densmore)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:28:44 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
In-Reply-To: <489A8B82.4070905@snoutfarm.com>
References: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>
	<4C84165D-B0AC-4938-83F8-B2D52A8D4B46@backspaces.net>
	<489A8B82.4070905@snoutfarm.com>
Message-ID: <8EAA916A-E74C-41DA-9836-33FCD725F09F@backspaces.net>

> So I don't care about wonder and delight, I care about useful.   But  
> I'm
> pretty sure that's all personality and context.

So useful isn't wonder and delight?  I bet it was when you first  
grocked it!

    -- Owen

On Aug 6, 2008, at 11:43 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

> Owen Densmore wrote:
>> Example: I am constantly amazed by such things as
>> - The fact that a matrix solves the characteristic equation used to
>> find its eigenvalues.
> In practical terms, an eigenvalue says how much variability in a  
> dataset
> is explained by looking at a thing from a certain angle (defined by an
> `eigenvector').  Different orthogonal perspectives give different
> amounts of explanation, but the neat and useful thing is that they are
> additive and capture different pieces of the whole picture.   For
> example, Johan Bollen's cool Blender plots of scholarly metrics were
> eigensystem analyses, a.k.a. principal component analyses.
>
> So I don't care about wonder and delight, I care about useful.   But  
> I'm
> pretty sure that's all personality and context.
>
> Marcus
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 15:38:45 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:38:45 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  hydrology models
Message-ID: <489B1705.5040808@snoutfarm.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know what the popular hydrology simulation models are, esp. 
in use in New Mexico?
USGS has some nice resources (below), but none of them seem to have the 
resolution to address, say, the La Cienega problem.  What data is 
actually available besides well level data and above ground GIS data 
(e.g. radar elevation data). 

http://nm.water.usgs.gov/
http://nm.water.usgs.gov/projects/piezometers/piezometers.city.new/

In practical terms, it doesn't sound hard to take some hydrology 
simulations (I suppose they are Fortran codes), get them running, and 
making some code to extract GIS layers of water levels, percolation 
rates, or whatever.  Just doing that sounds like it would be useful for 
the projects mentioned last night.   The results could be dropped into 
something like PostGIS (http://postgis.refractions.net) and visualized 
on the web by interested people in the community.

Marcus


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 16:19:01 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:19:01 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: SAGE 2008.07.30 Documentation - July 30, 2008
In-Reply-To: <8EAA916A-E74C-41DA-9836-33FCD725F09F@backspaces.net>
References: <380-2200884704112690@earthlink.net>	<4C84165D-B0AC-4938-83F8-B2D52A8D4B46@backspaces.net>	<489A8B82.4070905@snoutfarm.com>
	<8EAA916A-E74C-41DA-9836-33FCD725F09F@backspaces.net>
Message-ID: <489B2075.20105@snoutfarm.com>

Owen Densmore wrote:
>> So I don't care about wonder and delight, I care about useful.   But  
>> I'm
>> pretty sure that's all personality and context.
>>     
>
> So useful isn't wonder and delight? 
It's the application of mathematics & computer programs to understand 
real-world things that motivates me more than the appreciation of the 
beauty of their inherent forms.  That's probably, in part, an 
intellectual and spiritual weakness in me.  In contrast to an invented 
abstract world, diving into all the uncooperative complexity of real 
world problems does have its way of identifying the limitations amongst 
modeling techniques, i.e. necessity is the mother of invention.   SAGE 
sounds like a way to let us all wade in a little deeper.   Why people 
want to wade in farther, may not be a crucial question to resolve.

Marcus





From rwroth at nets.com  Thu Aug  7 16:58:44 2008
From: rwroth at nets.com (Roy Wroth)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 10:58:44 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <489B1705.5040808@snoutfarm.com>
References: <489B1705.5040808@snoutfarm.com>
Message-ID: <23724181-4505-48C6-9E02-AB9E5F57BD4A@nets.com>

I can ask Gar Clark and Wetherby Dorshow, GIS guys.

Roy


On Aug 7, 2008, at 9:38 AM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know what the popular hydrology simulation models are,  
> esp.
> in use in New Mexico?
> USGS has some nice resources (below), but none of them seem to have  
> the
> resolution to address, say, the La Cienega problem.  What data is
> actually available besides well level data and above ground GIS data
> (e.g. radar elevation data).
>
> http://nm.water.usgs.gov/
> http://nm.water.usgs.gov/projects/piezometers/piezometers.city.new/
>
> In practical terms, it doesn't sound hard to take some hydrology
> simulations (I suppose they are Fortran codes), get them running, and
> making some code to extract GIS layers of water levels, percolation
> rates, or whatever.  Just doing that sounds like it would be useful  
> for
> the projects mentioned last night.   The results could be dropped into
> something like PostGIS (http://postgis.refractions.net) and visualized
> on the web by interested people in the community.
>
> Marcus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 17:22:53 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:22:53 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <23724181-4505-48C6-9E02-AB9E5F57BD4A@nets.com>
References: <489B1705.5040808@snoutfarm.com>
	<23724181-4505-48C6-9E02-AB9E5F57BD4A@nets.com>
Message-ID: <489B2F6D.3080102@snoutfarm.com>

Roy Wroth wrote:
> I can ask Gar Clark and Wetherby Dorshow, GIS guys.
>   
Thanks.   This one appears to be a standard package. 

http://water.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/man_wrdapp?hspf

DATA REQUIREMENTS
       Meteorologic records of precipitation and estimates of potential
       evapotranspiration are required for watershed simulation.  Air
       temperature, dewpoint temperature, wind, and solar radiation are
       required for snowmelt.  Air temperature, wind, solar radiation,
       humidity, cloud cover, tillage practices, point sources, and (or)
       pesticide applications may be required for water-quality simulation.
       Physical measurements and related parameters are required to
       describe the land area, channels, and reservoirs.

This package apparently makes something calls WDM files, which can be 
imported into ArcView 9 like so:

http://www.crwr.utexas.edu/gis/gishydro06/WaterQuality/HSPF/tutorials/3-ApplyingArcHSPFPPM.htm

Sounds like the simulations are feasible, but the harder work would be 
getting good data (and finding an appropriate person to provide the 
scientific guidance).

From tom at jtjohnson.com  Thu Aug  7 17:24:04 2008
From: tom at jtjohnson.com (Tom Johnson)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:24:04 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <489B2F6D.3080102@snoutfarm.com>
References: <489B1705.5040808@snoutfarm.com>
	<23724181-4505-48C6-9E02-AB9E5F57BD4A@nets.com>
	<489B2F6D.3080102@snoutfarm.com>
Message-ID: <e04090490808071024o604e9eebl46a2700a12283eab@mail.gmail.com>

Think someone could quickly put together a Blender night on this topic?

-Tom

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Marcus G. Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>wrote:

> Roy Wroth wrote:
> > I can ask Gar Clark and Wetherby Dorshow, GIS guys.
> >
> Thanks.   This one appears to be a standard package.
>
> http://water.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/man_wrdapp?hspf
>
> DATA REQUIREMENTS
>       Meteorologic records of precipitation and estimates of potential
>       evapotranspiration are required for watershed simulation.  Air
>       temperature, dewpoint temperature, wind, and solar radiation are
>       required for snowmelt.  Air temperature, wind, solar radiation,
>       humidity, cloud cover, tillage practices, point sources, and (or)
>       pesticide applications may be required for water-quality simulation.
>       Physical measurements and related parameters are required to
>       describe the land area, channels, and reservoirs.
>
> This package apparently makes something calls WDM files, which can be
> imported into ArcView 9 like so:
>
>
> http://www.crwr.utexas.edu/gis/gishydro06/WaterQuality/HSPF/tutorials/3-ApplyingArcHSPFPPM.htm
>
> Sounds like the simulations are feasible, but the harder work would be
> getting good data (and finding an appropriate person to provide the
> scientific guidance).
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
>
>


-- 
==========================================
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
www.analyticjournalism.com
505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete."
-- Buckminster Fuller
==========================================
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From stephen.guerin at redfish.com  Thu Aug  7 17:34:26 2008
From: stephen.guerin at redfish.com (Stephen Guerin)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:34:26 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <e04090490808071024o604e9eebl46a2700a12283eab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f001c8f8b3$da0f0130$7201a8c0@hongyu>

Tom writes:
> http://www.crwr.utexas.edu/gis/gishydro06/WaterQuality/HSPF/tu
> torials/3-ApplyingArcHSPFPPM.htm

It looks like they are using ModelBuilder inside of ArcGIS

-S

--- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....
Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com
www.Redfish.com
624 Agua Fria Street, Santa Fe, NM 87501
mobile: (505)577-5828
office: (505)995-0206
London: +44 (0) 20 7993 4769
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tom at jtjohnson.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:24 AM
> To: General topics & issues
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
> 
> Think someone could quickly put together a Blender night on 
> this topic?
> 
> -Tom
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Marcus G. Daniels 
> <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	Roy Wroth wrote:
> 	> I can ask Gar Clark and Wetherby Dorshow, GIS guys.
> 	>
> 	
> 	Thanks.   This one appears to be a standard package.
> 	
> 	http://water.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/man_wrdapp?hspf
> 	
> 	DATA REQUIREMENTS
> 	      Meteorologic records of precipitation and 
> estimates of potential
> 	      evapotranspiration are required for watershed 
> simulation.  Air
> 	      temperature, dewpoint temperature, wind, and 
> solar radiation are
> 	      required for snowmelt.  Air temperature, wind, 
> solar radiation,
> 	      humidity, cloud cover, tillage practices, point 
> sources, and (or)
> 	      pesticide applications may be required for 
> water-quality simulation.
> 	      Physical measurements and related parameters are 
> required to
> 	      describe the land area, channels, and reservoirs.
> 	
> 	This package apparently makes something calls WDM 
> files, which can be
> 	imported into ArcView 9 like so:
> 	
> 	
> http://www.crwr.utexas.edu/gis/gishydro06/WaterQuality/HSPF/tu
> torials/3-ApplyingArcHSPFPPM.htm
> 	
> 	Sounds like the simulations are feasible, but the 
> harder work would be
> 	getting good data (and finding an appropriate person to 
> provide the
> 	scientific guidance).
> 	
> 	_______________________________________________
> 	Discuss mailing list
> 	Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> 	http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 	http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ==========================================
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA 
> www.analyticjournalism.com
> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
> http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com
> 
> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
> To change something, build a new model that makes the 
> existing model obsolete."
> -- Buckminster Fuller
> ==========================================
> 
> 


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 18:25:53 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:25:53 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <e04090490808071024o604e9eebl46a2700a12283eab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <489B1705.5040808@snoutfarm.com>	<23724181-4505-48C6-9E02-AB9E5F57BD4A@nets.com>	<489B2F6D.3080102@snoutfarm.com>
	<e04090490808071024o604e9eebl46a2700a12283eab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <489B3E31.3070500@snoutfarm.com>

Tom Johnson wrote:
> Think someone could quickly put together a Blender night on this topic?
Don't know enough myself about the regional geology, aquifers, etc. to 
work efficiently by myself but perhaps an adviser can be found.   Those 
semantics aside, learning the HSPF package would take me several 
intensive days at least, probably more.   Still, a way better situation 
that having to start from scratch.

I think popular ABM engines will never perform well enough for the 
below-surface water movement aspect of it, especially layered on ArcView 
(although it is possible to implement).  However, a simple social 
network could be implemented in the native Visual Basic ArcView 
interface while handing off the hard work to a hydrology simulator.   Or 
NetLogo could probably be enhanced with a Java plugin to talk to the 
geodatabase (it's just SQL with some extensions).   In other words, use 
ArcView just to visualize data stored on the database, and updated in 
two different ways (one hydrology simulation, the other the social 
network) and that run in a cycle.

Marcus




From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 18:28:09 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:28:09 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <00f001c8f8b3$da0f0130$7201a8c0@hongyu>
References: <00f001c8f8b3$da0f0130$7201a8c0@hongyu>
Message-ID: <489B3EB9.6030800@snoutfarm.com>

Stephen Guerin wrote:
> Tom writes:
>   
>> http://www.crwr.utexas.edu/gis/gishydro06/WaterQuality/HSPF/tu
>> torials/3-ApplyingArcHSPFPPM.htm
>>     
>
> It looks like they are using ModelBuilder inside of ArcGIS
>   
Yeah, there's a zip file there with some extensions they built for/on 
that. 

From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Thu Aug  7 18:39:27 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:39:27 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
Message-ID: <bf7.3f00989c.35cc9b5f@aol.com>

There are numerous hydrological models out there including a decision making 
model completed by Sandia National Lab.   Most of the models are not 
simulation models.

Search the sites of:
Sandia NL
LANL
the OSE
the Espanola Technical Advisory Group
and our Governors Blue Ribbon Water Task Force (I am a member) on the OSE 
site

There are no really good watershed simulation models and I hope that sfX 
could be involved in such a project.

After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim Sorvig could give 
a basic NM water 101 presentation including all the political, legal and 
economic complexities involved.   Does this interest anyone?
More later Paul


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in 
your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Thu Aug  7 19:14:36 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:14:36 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <bf7.3f00989c.35cc9b5f@aol.com>
References: <bf7.3f00989c.35cc9b5f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <489B499C.5090500@snoutfarm.com>

PPARYSKI at aol.com wrote:
> After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim Sorvig 
> could give a basic NM water 101 presentation including all the 
> political, legal and economic complexities involved.  Does this 
> interest anyone?
aye!

From tom at jtjohnson.com  Fri Aug  8 00:18:42 2008
From: tom at jtjohnson.com (Tom Johnson)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 18:18:42 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
Message-ID: <e04090490808071718l58a04585pcdee1b537f915081@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like a great topic with broad public interest.

-tj

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:39 PM, <PPARYSKI at aol.com> wrote:

> There are numerous hydrological models out there including a decision
> making model completed by Sandia National Lab.  Most of the models are not
> simulation models.
>
> Search the sites of:
> Sandia NL
> LANL
> the OSE
> the Espanola Technical Advisory Group
> and our Governors Blue Ribbon Water Task Force (I am a member) on the OSE
> site
>
> There are no really good watershed simulation models and I hope that sfX
> could be involved in such a project.
>
> After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim Sorvig could
> give a basic NM water 101 presentation including all the political, legal
> and economic complexities involved.  Does this interest anyone?
> More later Paul
>
>
> **************
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
> on AOL Autos.
> (
> http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017)
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
>


-- 
==========================================
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
www.analyticjournalism.com
505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete."
-- Buckminster Fuller
==========================================
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From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Fri Aug  8 00:43:39 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:43:39 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
Message-ID: <c78.39f0b678.35ccf0bb@aol.com>

I'll talk to Kim and then Don about scheduling a presentation.   Water 
resources management is not only critical but very complex, especially in the 
western US.   IT tools. ABM, systems dynamics all can help.

Paul


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your 
budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  8 03:22:25 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:22:25 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  wiki
Message-ID: <380-2200885832225597@earthlink.net>

Hay, guys, 

The wiki has been down for a week, now.  And now I notice it isnt even on the website, any more.  

You are _trying_  to kill me, right????

Please, please do your best to get it up and running again. 

If that is going to not happen in the near future, then I should send something out to the friam list, aborting my attempts to get stuff started. 



Nick 


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
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From stephen.guerin at redfish.com  Fri Aug  8 04:35:49 2008
From: stephen.guerin at redfish.com (Stephen Guerin)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:35:49 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
In-Reply-To: <bf7.3f00989c.35cc9b5f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <009801c8f910$3e9cb730$6401a8c0@hongyu>

A blender on political, leagal and economic complexities of water would be very
useful. It would be nice if we could direct at least part of the presentation of
how one might capture some of the complexities in a series of models and/or data
visualizations.

-S

--- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....
Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com
www.Redfish.com
my del.icio.us links: http://del.icio.us/redfishgroup
624 Agua Fria Street, Santa Fe, NM 87501
mobile: (505)577-5828
office: (505)995-0206
London: +44 (0) 20 7993 4769
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PPARYSKI at aol.com [mailto:PPARYSKI at aol.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 12:39 PM
> To: discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re:   hydrology models
> 
> There are numerous hydrological models out there including a 
> decision making model completed by Sandia National Lab.  Most 
> of the models are not simulation models.
> 
> Search the sites of:
> Sandia NL
> LANL
> the OSE
> the Espanola Technical Advisory Group
> and our Governors Blue Ribbon Water Task Force (I am a 
> member) on the OSE site
> 
> There are no really good watershed simulation models and I 
> hope that sfX could be involved in such a project.
> 
> After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim 
> Sorvig could give a basic NM water 101 presentation including 
> all the political, legal and economic complexities involved.  
> Does this interest anyone?
> More later Paul
> 
> 
> **************
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? 
> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aol
> aut00050000000017 )
> 


From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Fri Aug  8 14:36:18 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:36:18 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
Message-ID: <bca.2e3dd805.35cdb3e2@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/7/08 10:36:20 PM, stephen.guerin at redfish.com writes:


> A blender on political, legal and economic complexities of water would be 
> very
> useful. It would be nice if we could direct at least part of the 
> presentation of
> how one might capture some of the complexities in a series of models and/or 
> data
> visualizations.
> 
> I totally agree and this would certainly be one of the goals of the blender 
or even blenders.   Great!
P





**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? 
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From tom at jtjohnson.com  Fri Aug  8 15:29:38 2008
From: tom at jtjohnson.com (Tom Johnson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:29:38 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
Message-ID: <e04090490808080829u13e3064fm3f76dff28a5bb71f@mail.gmail.com>

A company called CTech has been advertising some of these tools for years on
the back of ESRI's publication "ArcNews."  It has a demo CD available at
http://www.ctech.com/index.php?page=groundwater

-tj

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:36 AM, <PPARYSKI at aol.com> wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/7/08 10:36:20 PM, stephen.guerin at redfish.com writes:
>
>
> *A blender on political, legal and economic complexities of water would be
> very
> useful. It would be nice if we could direct at least part of the
> presentation of
> how one might capture some of the complexities in a series of models and/or
> data
> visualizations.*
>
> I totally agree and this would certainly be one of the goals of the blender
> or even blenders.  Great!
> P
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
> on AOL Autos.
> (
> http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017)
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
>


-- 
==========================================
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
www.analyticjournalism.com
505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete."
-- Buckminster Fuller
==========================================
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From DonBegley at jjwalker.biz  Fri Aug  8 17:38:40 2008
From: DonBegley at jjwalker.biz (Don Begley)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:38:40 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: wiki
In-Reply-To: <380-2200885832225597@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200885832225597@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5EC56938-007C-4C2D-8298-BD53AAEDEB18@jjwalker.biz>

The wiki died when I did what I thought would be a routine upgrade to  
version 1.12 via a Virtualmin installer script (Virtualmin is the  
interface I use for administering the site).  This is a bug in MW  
1.12, apparently, and there is a bug ticket in the Mediawiki site with  
a fix that doesn't work There is also an ongoing discussion on various  
other forums on various fixes, none of which have worked for me.  
Likewise, I've been working with Joyent's tech people insofar as they  
can offer advice without kicking the trouble ticket into a fee- 
arrangement.

I hope a fix will appear magically today. If not, I'll try to roll  
back the upgrade. I don't want to do this because I don't want to  
touch the SQL database if I don't have to. However, that may be the  
only option.

As far as FRIAM is concerned, you could certainly work in Word and  
post it when the wiki is up again.

-d-

P.S. This is a fine example of the value of forums for their focus,  
searchability and access to a wide range of views.



On Aug 7, 2008, at 9:22 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

>
> Hay, guys,
>
> The wiki has been down for a week, now.  And now I notice it isnt  
> even on the website, any more.
>
> You are _trying_  to kill me, right????
>
> Please, please do your best to get it up and running again.
>
> If that is going to not happen in the near future, then I should  
> send something out to the friam list, aborting my attempts to get  
> stuff started.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>

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From don at sfcomplex.org  Fri Aug  8 17:44:14 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:44:14 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
In-Reply-To: <009801c8f910$3e9cb730$6401a8c0@hongyu>
References: <009801c8f910$3e9cb730$6401a8c0@hongyu>
Message-ID: <9297D154-832F-4D99-B5BC-2481F10C3AF4@sfcomplex.org>

Absolutely. I hoped Michael's work would lead in that direction but we  
didn't attract the acequia community for whatever reason. (We did  
contact the acequia commission, which expressed interest, but that  
didn't grow.)

The blender showed me the limits of our predominantly word-of-mouth  
approach to marketing. If our mouths don't extend far enough, the word  
doesn't get out.

A blender like this, planned in advance so we have lots of hooks and  
so we can get the word out, would be fun. Is there anyone willing to  
take the lead?

-d-


On Aug 7, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:

> A blender on political, leagal and economic complexities of water  
> would be very
> useful. It would be nice if we could direct at least part of the  
> presentation of
> how one might capture some of the complexities in a series of models  
> and/or data
> visualizations.
>
> -S
>
> --- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....
> Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com
> www.Redfish.com
> my del.icio.us links: http://del.icio.us/redfishgroup
> 624 Agua Fria Street, Santa Fe, NM 87501
> mobile: (505)577-5828
> office: (505)995-0206
> London: +44 (0) 20 7993 4769
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PPARYSKI at aol.com [mailto:PPARYSKI at aol.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 12:39 PM
>> To: discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re:   hydrology models
>>
>> There are numerous hydrological models out there including a
>> decision making model completed by Sandia National Lab.  Most
>> of the models are not simulation models.
>>
>> Search the sites of:
>> Sandia NL
>> LANL
>> the OSE
>> the Espanola Technical Advisory Group
>> and our Governors Blue Ribbon Water Task Force (I am a
>> member) on the OSE site
>>
>> There are no really good watershed simulation models and I
>> hope that sfX could be involved in such a project.
>>
>> After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim
>> Sorvig could give a basic NM water 101 presentation including
>> all the political, legal and economic complexities involved.
>> Does this interest anyone?
>> More later Paul
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
>> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aol
>> aut00050000000017 )
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From owen at backspaces.net  Fri Aug  8 18:26:21 2008
From: owen at backspaces.net (Owen Densmore)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:26:21 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: wiki
In-Reply-To: <5EC56938-007C-4C2D-8298-BD53AAEDEB18@jjwalker.biz>
References: <380-2200885832225597@earthlink.net>
	<5EC56938-007C-4C2D-8298-BD53AAEDEB18@jjwalker.biz>
Message-ID: <B8932BD4-F0E3-4B82-99BC-B5F7754199BD@backspaces.net>

Another solution would be to use my wiki on backspaces temporarily,  
and move it via cut/paste to the newer version when available on the  
complex.

    -- Owen

On Aug 8, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Don Begley wrote:

> The wiki died when I did what I thought would be a routine upgrade  
> to version 1.12 via a Virtualmin installer script (Virtualmin is the  
> interface I use for administering the site).  This is a bug in MW  
> 1.12, apparently, and there is a bug ticket in the Mediawiki site  
> with a fix that doesn't work There is also an ongoing discussion on  
> various other forums on various fixes, none of which have worked for  
> me. Likewise, I've been working with Joyent's tech people insofar as  
> they can offer advice without kicking the trouble ticket into a fee- 
> arrangement.
>
> I hope a fix will appear magically today. If not, I'll try to roll  
> back the upgrade. I don't want to do this because I don't want to  
> touch the SQL database if I don't have to. However, that may be the  
> only option.
>
> As far as FRIAM is concerned, you could certainly work in Word and  
> post it when the wiki is up again.
>
> -d-
>
> P.S. This is a fine example of the value of forums for their focus,  
> searchability and access to a wide range of views.
>
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2008, at 9:22 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
>>
>> Hay, guys,
>>
>> The wiki has been down for a week, now.  And now I notice it isnt  
>> even on the website, any more.
>>
>> You are _trying_  to kill me, right????
>>
>> Please, please do your best to get it up and running again.
>>
>> If that is going to not happen in the near future, then I should  
>> send something out to the friam list, aborting my attempts to get  
>> stuff started.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
>> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>


From rwroth at nets.com  Fri Aug  8 18:31:23 2008
From: rwroth at nets.com (Roy Wroth)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:31:23 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
In-Reply-To: <009801c8f910$3e9cb730$6401a8c0@hongyu>
References: <009801c8f910$3e9cb730$6401a8c0@hongyu>
Message-ID: <2B88FD97-C4E2-4A9B-B045-890A365793D3@nets.com>

Let's focus on a mailing list for this event -- its a newish area for  
the Complex, but there are well-established communities of interest  
for this.  Can we make some kind of contacts-wiki?

Roy



On Aug 7, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:

> A blender on political, leagal and economic complexities of water  
> would be very
> useful. It would be nice if we could direct at least part of the  
> presentation of
> how one might capture some of the complexities in a series of  
> models and/or data
> visualizations.
>
> -S
>
> --- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....
> Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com
> www.Redfish.com
> my del.icio.us links: http://del.icio.us/redfishgroup
> 624 Agua Fria Street, Santa Fe, NM 87501
> mobile: (505)577-5828
> office: (505)995-0206
> London: +44 (0) 20 7993 4769
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PPARYSKI at aol.com [mailto:PPARYSKI at aol.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 12:39 PM
>> To: discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
>> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re:   hydrology models
>>
>> There are numerous hydrological models out there including a
>> decision making model completed by Sandia National Lab.  Most
>> of the models are not simulation models.
>>
>> Search the sites of:
>> Sandia NL
>> LANL
>> the OSE
>> the Espanola Technical Advisory Group
>> and our Governors Blue Ribbon Water Task Force (I am a
>> member) on the OSE site
>>
>> There are no really good watershed simulation models and I
>> hope that sfX could be involved in such a project.
>>
>> After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim
>> Sorvig could give a basic NM water 101 presentation including
>> all the political, legal and economic complexities involved.
>> Does this interest anyone?
>> More later Paul
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
>> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aol
>> aut00050000000017 )
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html


From marcus at snoutfarm.com  Fri Aug  8 18:35:18 2008
From: marcus at snoutfarm.com (Marcus G. Daniels)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:35:18 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
In-Reply-To: <9297D154-832F-4D99-B5BC-2481F10C3AF4@sfcomplex.org>
References: <009801c8f910$3e9cb730$6401a8c0@hongyu>
	<9297D154-832F-4D99-B5BC-2481F10C3AF4@sfcomplex.org>
Message-ID: <489C91E6.5040205@snoutfarm.com>

Don Begley wrote:
> Absolutely. I hoped Michael's work would lead in that direction but we  
> didn't attract the acequia community for whatever reason. (We did  
> contact the acequia commission, which expressed interest, but that  
> didn't grow.)
>   
A strategic benefit of a big picture talk could be to get a better feel 
for where predictive modeling could be done at all.  Michael's talk was 
interesting, but clearly there are fewer economies of scale for 
collecting data in remote areas.   There's little point in, say, a 
complex watershed simulation if crucial data that goes into it is 
guesswork.   On the other hand, having an idea of the kinds of guesswork 
other people are doing (say the La Cienega case), and see how outcomes 
would be different depending on the `facts' one adopts.

Marcus


From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  8 18:42:53 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:42:53 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: wiki
Message-ID: <380-22008858184253253@earthlink.net>

Yeah.  And that is what I had been doing, mostly.  BUT.... unfortunately this mishap interacts with my own stupididty because SOMEHOW  the copy of the last version I posted on the wiki got oblilterated from my laptop.  

Is there any way to get content out so I can go on working?  

It rains here about an inch a day.  Flash flooding in NH.  Like we were in new mexico, or something: automobiles washed off roadways, etc.  Lake Winnipesaukee all but deserted.  The loons are having a field day.  Lake levels starting to over top docks, and stuff, and this in a lake whose level is determined by a dam.  

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




----- Original Message ----- 
From: Don Begley 
To: General topics & issues
Sent: 8/8/2008 11:38:51 AM 
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: wiki


The wiki died when I did what I thought would be a routine upgrade to version 1.12 via a Virtualmin installer script (Virtualmin is the interface I use for administering the site).  This is a bug in MW 1.12, apparently, and there is a bug ticket in the Mediawiki site with a fix that doesn't work There is also an ongoing discussion on various other forums on various fixes, none of which have worked for me. Likewise, I've been working with Joyent's tech people insofar as they can offer advice without kicking the trouble ticket into a fee-arrangement.


I hope a fix will appear magically today. If not, I'll try to roll back the upgrade. I don't want to do this because I don't want to touch the SQL database if I don't have to. However, that may be the only option.


As far as FRIAM is concerned, you could certainly work in Word and post it when the wiki is up again.


-d-


P.S. This is a fine example of the value of forums for their focus, searchability and access to a wide range of views.






On Aug 7, 2008, at 9:22 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:




Hay, guys, 

The wiki has been down for a week, now.  And now I notice it isnt even on the website, any more.  

You are _trying_  to kill me, right????

Please, please do your best to get it up and running again. 

If that is going to not happen in the near future, then I should send something out to the friam list, aborting my attempts to get stuff started. 



Nick 


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)





_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
-------------- next part --------------
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From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  8 18:48:57 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:48:57 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re:   hydrology models
Message-ID: <380-22008858184857607@earthlink.net>

What about the Living River community ... i.e., the people who want to keep
the Mighty Santa Fe flowing throughout the year.  Is that the same
community?  

One of the ideas I have had but not acted on is some sort of weekly writing
called "Down By the River Side"  which is written FROM the banks of the
Mighty Santa Fe and features reports the state of the river ... dry or wet
... and the people who come to visit it and the wild live that lives along
side it etc.  The river is such a derelict, and yet, people seem to come to
it and revere it, all the same.  

I dont know if that is a blog or something that one would approach a local
newspaper with.  

Nick  

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Don Begley <don at sfcomplex.org>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/8/2008 11:44:17 AM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: ? hydrology models
>
> Absolutely. I hoped Michael's work would lead in that direction but we  
> didn't attract the acequia community for whatever reason. (We did  
> contact the acequia commission, which expressed interest, but that  
> didn't grow.)
>
> The blender showed me the limits of our predominantly word-of-mouth  
> approach to marketing. If our mouths don't extend far enough, the word  
> doesn't get out.
>
> A blender like this, planned in advance so we have lots of hooks and  
> so we can get the word out, would be fun. Is there anyone willing to  
> take the lead?
>
> -d-
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
>
> > A blender on political, leagal and economic complexities of water  
> > would be very
> > useful. It would be nice if we could direct at least part of the  
> > presentation of
> > how one might capture some of the complexities in a series of models  
> > and/or data
> > visualizations.
> >
> > -S
> >
> > --- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....
> > Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com
> > www.Redfish.com
> > my del.icio.us links: http://del.icio.us/redfishgroup
> > 624 Agua Fria Street, Santa Fe, NM 87501
> > mobile: (505)577-5828
> > office: (505)995-0206
> > London: +44 (0) 20 7993 4769
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: PPARYSKI at aol.com [mailto:PPARYSKI at aol.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 12:39 PM
> >> To: discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re:   hydrology models
> >>
> >> There are numerous hydrological models out there including a
> >> decision making model completed by Sandia National Lab.  Most
> >> of the models are not simulation models.
> >>
> >> Search the sites of:
> >> Sandia NL
> >> LANL
> >> the OSE
> >> the Espanola Technical Advisory Group
> >> and our Governors Blue Ribbon Water Task Force (I am a
> >> member) on the OSE site
> >>
> >> There are no really good watershed simulation models and I
> >> hope that sfX could be involved in such a project.
> >>
> >> After last night's blender, I thought that I maybe with Kim
> >> Sorvig could give a basic NM water 101 presentation including
> >> all the political, legal and economic complexities involved.
> >> Does this interest anyone?
> >> More later Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> **************
> >> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
> >> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
> >> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aol
> >> aut00050000000017 )
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> > http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  8 18:49:45 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:49:45 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: wiki
Message-ID: <380-22008858184945576@earthlink.net>

Thanks Owen, but I have ... due to my own fecklessness ... content locked
away on it.  

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/8/2008 12:26:26 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: wiki
>
> Another solution would be to use my wiki on backspaces temporarily,  
> and move it via cut/paste to the newer version when available on the  
> complex.
>
>     -- Owen
>
> On Aug 8, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Don Begley wrote:
>
> > The wiki died when I did what I thought would be a routine upgrade  
> > to version 1.12 via a Virtualmin installer script (Virtualmin is the  
> > interface I use for administering the site).  This is a bug in MW  
> > 1.12, apparently, and there is a bug ticket in the Mediawiki site  
> > with a fix that doesn't work There is also an ongoing discussion on  
> > various other forums on various fixes, none of which have worked for  
> > me. Likewise, I've been working with Joyent's tech people insofar as  
> > they can offer advice without kicking the trouble ticket into a fee- 
> > arrangement.
> >
> > I hope a fix will appear magically today. If not, I'll try to roll  
> > back the upgrade. I don't want to do this because I don't want to  
> > touch the SQL database if I don't have to. However, that may be the  
> > only option.
> >
> > As far as FRIAM is concerned, you could certainly work in Word and  
> > post it when the wiki is up again.
> >
> > -d-
> >
> > P.S. This is a fine example of the value of forums for their focus,  
> > searchability and access to a wide range of views.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 7, 2008, at 9:22 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hay, guys,
> >>
> >> The wiki has been down for a week, now.  And now I notice it isnt  
> >> even on the website, any more.
> >>
> >> You are _trying_  to kill me, right????
> >>
> >> Please, please do your best to get it up and running again.
> >>
> >> If that is going to not happen in the near future, then I should  
> >> send something out to the friam list, aborting my attempts to get  
> >> stuff started.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nick
> >>
> >>
> >> Nicholas S. Thompson
> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> >> Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Discuss mailing list
> >> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> >> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> > http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  8 19:06:53 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:06:53 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
Message-ID: <380-2200885819653534@earthlink.net>

I probably havent been following this closely enough, but I want to make
sure everybody knows that the Weather Bureau publishes daily estimated
rainfall maps mad.e from radar data.  Dont know how well they validate or
what resolution you would need.  

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)




> [Original Message]
> From: Marcus G. Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> To: General topics & issues <discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org>
> Date: 8/8/2008 12:35:26 PM
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
>
> Don Begley wrote:
> > Absolutely. I hoped Michael's work would lead in that direction but we  
> > didn't attract the acequia community for whatever reason. (We did  
> > contact the acequia commission, which expressed interest, but that  
> > didn't grow.)
> >   
> A strategic benefit of a big picture talk could be to get a better feel 
> for where predictive modeling could be done at all.  Michael's talk was 
> interesting, but clearly there are fewer economies of scale for 
> collecting data in remote areas.   There's little point in, say, a 
> complex watershed simulation if crucial data that goes into it is 
> guesswork.   On the other hand, having an idea of the kinds of guesswork 
> other people are doing (say the La Cienega case), and see how outcomes 
> would be different depending on the `facts' one adopts.
>
> Marcus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.sfcomplex.org
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html



From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Fri Aug  8 20:18:39 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:18:39 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
Message-ID: <bff.424d6b88.35ce041f@aol.com>

Nick,
The group I imagine you are thinking of is the Santa Fe Watershed Association 
which is trying to establish environmental flows in the SF River, a difficult 
task until the Buckman Division starts delivering water to the city in >2010. 
  I worked with them.   

Paul


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your 
budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From don at sfcomplex.org  Fri Aug  8 21:05:11 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:05:11 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  Reminder: Unstructured data & Friday Frito Pies
Message-ID: <3D9A832E-9B34-4059-A813-BF6ED2699C8E@sfcomplex.org>

Tonight's Frito pie session has an added twist: Chris Feola, named one  
of the 50 most influential people in new media by Online Journalism  
Review, will join us for a casual evening discussion of his work with  
unstructured data in journalism and other inquiries. He will describe  
the ins-and-outs of information overload in the computer culture and,  
in particular, \ imposing order of data to extract meaningful  
information from it.

The Frito pies are well-structured and warm. Come by at 5:00



-d-
670-9432 (cell)


From nickthompson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  8 23:15:44 2008
From: nickthompson at earthlink.net (Nicholas Thompson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 17:15:44 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss]  A definition of a complex....
Message-ID: <380-22008858231544351@earthlink.net>

is, an array of simplexes (technology, art, government, science, etc.) that together approximate the whole.  

N


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University (nthompson at clarku.edu)
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From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Fri Aug  8 23:24:34 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 19:24:34 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
Message-ID: <c6e.26f91b65.35ce2fb2@aol.com>

I spoke to   Kim Sorvig.   He and I agreed we could give a blender in 
September on water resources, the legal, historical, policy, ecological complexities 
involved and suggest how modeling and other IT tools might be applied.   We 
are working on an outline! Hope this wet your appetite!

Paul


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your 
budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Fri Aug  8 23:26:28 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 19:26:28 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: hydrology models
Message-ID: <cc5.3c1c4d66.35ce3024@aol.com>

Please send any suggestions to Kim and me.   My expertise is on policy, 
governance and legal issues.   Paul


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, 
fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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From don at sfcomplex.org  Fri Aug  8 23:27:46 2008
From: don at sfcomplex.org (Don Begley)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 17:27:46 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_hydrology_models?=
In-Reply-To: <c6e.26f91b65.35ce2fb2@aol.com>
References: <c6e.26f91b65.35ce2fb2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8512C762-284D-4DD1-B905-07CB90388F0B@sfcomplex.org>


On Aug 8, 2008, at 5:24 PM, PPARYSKI at aol.com wrote:

> Hope this wet your appetite!

Makes me thirsty, too.

Thanks, Paul. This is great.

-d-

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From PPARYSKI at aol.com  Fri Aug  8 23:36:48 2008
From: PPARYSKI at aol.com (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 19:36:48 EDT
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Fwd: Hume speech to interim committee re: domestic
	wells decision
Message-ID: <bf0.33aab576.35ce3290@aol.com>

To give you an idea of the legal complexities that affect water resource 
management, and if you are interested, please read the statement made by my friend 
and fellow member of the Governor's Blue Ribbon Water Task to the interim 
legislative committee.   Bill Hume is the Governor's policy person.

Paul


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your 
budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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Subject: Hume speech to interim committee re: domestic wells decision
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From tom at jtjohnson.com  Sat Aug  9 04:52:24 2008
From: tom at jtjohnson.com (Tom Johnson)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:52:24 -0600
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Fwd: Changing the Tourism Model - UNESCO Santa Fe
	International Conference on Creative Tourism
In-Reply-To: <1102200706757.1101668597280.4157.6.201135FF@scheduler>
References: <1102200706757.1101668597280.4157.6.201135FF@scheduler>
Message-ID: <e04090490808082152q2e261e8ds3f2e16e99d249d6@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder if there's something here for the Complex?

-tj

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Santa Fe International Conference on Creative Tourism <
info at santafecreativetourism.org>
Date: Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Subject: Changing the Tourism Model - UNESCO Santa Fe International
Conference on Creative Tourism
To: jtjohnson555 at gmail.com


   [image: Creative Tourism Logo]
<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HoY2n3oB7zuLpwKbb6UTcO2UKoSIz-h6zgymgTYmSFMfUX2ah653TIq5gYgtPw-KXkg-cXchJvrj91KVeSHIi4K4hTu9Pj_k9i-2N4e0cMPXqUm1WtIvS6Tr219A6zvegV5LzvlYukE=>
Keynote
Speaker
Charles Landry,
Urban Consultant, UK
learn more ><http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HoY2n3oB7zu1f9TYnrL218wU-tZ9XhXDoADPqF1tjCeVbEBuYg9KOXETXJCPPc1fiIryEIQaQJGUH4TC1XLTdpMmrL0U8yvZq7OVvSfVwfgaR971_9Xo7whoUFhJ6LEhsI3hQIrJHROEWQvfzOJHBg==>
Reserve
Your Space
click here ><http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HoY2n3oB7ztVl91E8etJUg6GYq8htRr35G_9_-7WOwe1SOm8NB1fA4rxC3TsGeAqBHVuIW5W482nmDnNHSJnpbyysdpht1gC9fyu6oCbXqFQtR_yek7NG0GFuqtiLPmj>

   - Student/Senior Discounts
   - Local Resident Discounts
   - Daily Rates
   - Group Discount Rates
   - Volunteer Opportunities Available

Choose workshops
in four tracks:

   - UNESCO Creative Cities
   Global Creative Strategies in Design, Music, Film, Literature, Folk Arts,
   Gastronomy
   - Creative Tourism Experiences Engage in Hands-On Creative Tourism
   Activities
   - Creative Entrepreneurs /
   How To - Improve & Enhance Your Creative Ventures
   - New Economic Development Strategies - Business with a Sense of
   Creativity and Place

 Subscribe to eNews Conference UpdatesEmail:


  [image: Travel images] Changing the Tourism Model Creative Tourism
Conference offers innovative alternatives for difficult economic conditions
------------------------------

In today's constricting economy we are reevaluating what is and
isn't working in our personal and business lives. Globally, we are spending
more time thinking about our choices: how to limit our use of fossil fuels;
what our spending priorities are; how to maximize the return on our efforts.
This self-examination can limit our time and ability to be creative, just
when we may need to innovate the most.

*The Santa Fe International Conference on Creative Tourism, September 28 ?
October 2, 2008*, comes at this critical moment to address the needs of
businesses seeking new models for success. And tourism is big business. In
2007 travel expenditures in the United States totaled $739.4 billion,
generating 7.7 million jobs with a payroll of $186 billion*. In New Mexico
alone travel expenditures were $5.077 billion in 2006, providing 80,000
total jobs according to the New Mexico Tourism Department. Although the
World Tourism Organization's June, 2008 World Tourism Barometer indicates
this will be a positive year for travel, the report cautions, "Uncertainty
over the global economic situation is affecting consumer confidence and
could hurt tourism interest demand. The current economic imbalances, in
particular rising energy prices, are very likely to influence tourism
spending." Dr. Geoffrey Godbey, Professor Emeritus at Penn State University,
author or co-author of 8 books and approximately 100 articles dealing with
leisure behavior, and the future of leisure services, will be a conference
presenter. He recently stated. "The *experience* is what's being purchased,
not a hotel room or an airline ticket or a car trip. So quality of
experience is value for money and the basis on which travelers make their
judgments. Creative tourism has a chance to weather the current economic
storm by the quality of experience people are paying for." How then to make
the most of a travel destination's resources? In a world in which we all
want the most for our time and money, what proactive steps can be taken to
add value to a community's appeal? How are entrepreneurs working today to
reach their clientele with a product that cuts through the clutter? These
are some of the subjects to be examined and experienced during the
conference. Underlying the concept of creative tourism is the critical need
for *authenticity* ? a word whose meaning is being diluted daily through its
connection with everything from handbags to chicken wings. Creative tourism
is meant to provide visitors with an up-close, hands-on, real experience,
grounded in a community's people and culture. What gives these activities
the greatest value is their genuine nature. It is a simple concept that
takes some work and understanding to implement. Dr Godbey references the
first book by James Gilmore and Joseph Pine, The Experience Economy: Work Is
Theatre & Every Business a Stage, in which the authors underscore the need
for businesses to sell real experiences in order to survive. "Creative
tourists don't go for service, they go for what's *memorable*," Godbey says.
"They've done so much already?stayed in nice hotels, eaten in nice
restaurants?what they want are experiences that last." With an outstanding
group of guest lecturers and panelists, a variety of chances to see creative
tourism in action around Santa Fe, and a diverse program of participatory
workshops, conference delegates will have an abundance of real-world
knowledge with which to work. "As the American population grows" Godbey
concludes, "small, unique tourist niches become more desirable, just as more
of the same become